New Breeding setup!

[mostlydave]

Hello All, Here is a link to my new breeding set up:
https://dl-web.dropbox.com/get/Public/Fish/Breeding%20Tank.jpg?w=a1564109

Sorry, I haven’t mastered the picture resizing and posting into threads! I have ordered a bunch of new food that should arrive Friday and thats when I’m planning to start my first breeding attempt in the new setup. The sponge for my sponge filter is currently in my display tank, hopefully soaking up some beneficial bacteria!

The tank features a lego supported sheet of plastic canvas the the same size of the bottom of the tank, a sponge filter and heater and all the java moss I currently have. The bulb in the hood is a 10W compact fluorescent.

I plan on putting in my adults for seven days while feeding high quality food.

Anyone have any suggestions before friday? if all goes well I’ll update this thread as I go!

[mostlydave]

Progress report:

I’ve removed the plastic canvas even though it was a tight fit, fish kept getting under it. I now have the bottom about half covered with java moss, and I’ve orderd some more. I’m hoping I still get some fry, but if not I’ll try again with more java moss.

[mostlydave]

Well, I’ve had no luck so far.

I’ve had my adults 4 female and 2 male in a 5.5 Gallon breeding tank for two attempts and so far no fry. for my latest attempt I had the adults in the tank for 7 days, Its bare bottom with about 3 inches of java moss, and some floating baby dwarf tears, about 70 degrees and sponge filter gently bubbling.

It’s been about 10 days since I moved the adults back to my community tank and I haven’t spotted any fry yet. I do have some kind of tiny critters that are hanging out in my floating plants so I guess thats a good sign that the fry will have something to eat if I get any.

I did notice that my CPD’s seem pretty shy while they’re in the breeder tank. There’re wild caught so I don’t know if that has anything to do with it or not.

I picked up a 3 Cup Pyrex container today to make into an egg trap to try out in my community tank 55 Gallon Lightly Planted, I’m hoping my fish are more at ease in there and may actually breed more.

a few questions: Since I haven’t seen any fry in my 5.5 breeder yet I don’t need to add any food? I don’t want to keep putting in liquify with no fry to eat it, and do I need to be doing water changes since I haven’t seen any fry?

I’m going to be checking the trap every day, what’s the best way to transfer eggs or fry to the fry tank? is it better to use a turkey baster or to just dump all the water from the trap into to fry tank?

I’m hoping I have better luck with the egg trap in the community tank and I’ll post my results here again!

[Pushkatu]

I think you did not get any fry because, there where to many adults in the breeding tank. While a pair was spawning the others simply ate the eggs. For me it worked with 2 females and 1 male.

[BallAquatics]

@mostlydave wrote:

a few questions: Since I haven’t seen any fry in my 5.5 breeder yet I don’t need to add any food?

No food until the fry are actively swimming around in the tank. When they first hatch it takes a few days before the absorb all the yoke sac so they are not hungry and feeding will only cause water quality issues.

@mostlydave wrote:

…and do I need to be doing water changes since I haven’t seen any fry?

I normally don’t change any water until the fry have been free swimming for about a week. If there are only a few fry, maybe 15 or less, I might even let it go longer. They are very small and not much of a bio load for the sponge filter.

@mostlydave wrote:

…what’s the best way to transfer eggs or fry to the fry tank? is it better to use a turkey baster or to just dump all the water from the trap into to fry tank?

When I use an egg trap, I just put the entire trap in the tank I’m using for the fry. After you first see eggs in the trap, you have 2 or 3 days before any will hatch so you can leave the trap with the adults during this time to see if they spawn again. If you have several females in the tank they will often alternately spawn several days in a row. When the fry start swimming they will find their way out of the trap without any problems.

Dennis

[mostlydave]

Well I had my egg trap in my community tank 2 days and now it’s been in my fry tank about 2 days I now have some activity in the tank this morning and I have a link to a short video:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1426326/Fish/Fry%20Maybe.MOV

If these are fry they are extremely tiny!

[BallAquatics]

I don’t see any fry in that video, but I don’t see as well as I once did either! LOL

Do you see eggs in the bottom of the trap? They can be rather difficult to see but as they age and get ready to hatch they become darker in color and easier to identify. Here’s a photo of some Zebra danio eggs at around 60 hours old, just before hatching…

I wish I had the same photo without the macro lens to show them at actual size for a reference as they are quite tiny. Sorry I can’t be more helpful.

Dennis

[mostlydave]

I didn’t see any eggs like that so I guess I didn’t get any fry that time. You can actually see the fry in the eggs like the picture you posted pretty easily? That will make it a little easier to tell whats going on I’m assuming that I’ll also be able to just tell when I have fry because I’ll be able to see them with there little eyes like they appear in the eggs?

Could you take a guess at what is swimming around in that video? I’m now convinced its the kind of tiny organisms that the fry will be able to feed on, I only seem to get it when I have java moss in a tank.

Thanks for all your advice Dennis, I am getting a little frustrated, but I’m not going to give up just yet. I’ve already learned a lot and I think if I keep trying I’ll hit the magical combo that works for me! I am going to stick with the egg trap for now because I’m thinking it is probably the easiest way to view some unhatched eggs.

I may try the trap in my 5.5 Gallon tank with just a few adults, maybe 1 male and 2 females just to simplify things and see what happens. I’ll post here again with results!

[BallAquatics]

@mostlydave wrote:

You can actually see the fry in the eggs like the picture you posted pretty easily?

I knew I was going to get into trouble when I posted that photo. It is a bit misleading in scale as the eggs are really very small. Without the macro lens I am unable to see the fry inside. The point I was trying to make, without going into great detail, was that as the eggs get closer to hatching, they become easier to see because they get darker due to the fry inside. Freshly spawned eggs are almost clear and very hard to see until you have seen them and know what to look for.

I have had several hobbyists tell me that after using the egg trap unsuccessfully for some time they missed checking the trap for several days and then found fry. They come to the conclusion that they were simply not seeing the eggs before. There is a bit of a learning curve, but that’s all part of the fun in the end!

@mostlydave wrote:

Could you take a guess at what is swimming around in that video? I’m now convinced its the kind of tiny organisms that the fry will be able to feed on, I only seem to get it when I have java moss in a tank.

They appear to be some type of protozoan. Yes, they will make excellent food for the fry. You typically don’t see any in tanks with adult fish as the fish eat them. I like to see them as they are an indicator that you have good water quality, they simply do not prosper in poor water. The moss also holds a vast array of micro-fauna for the fry to feed on. If you put a sprig of moss under a microscope you will be amazed at all the life you’ll find living there.

@mostlydave wrote:

Thanks for all your advice Dennis, I am getting a little frustrated, but I’m not going to give up just yet.

You are very welcome Dave. I know it’s hard not to get discouraged, but you’ll get there, and I’m guessing it will be a very rewarding experience. After being in this hobby for over 45 years, the first sighting of new fry still brings a smile to my face.

One very important note when using the egg trap! The fish will spawn in the place they like the best. If the tank has lots of other plants and a spawning site the fish find better suited to their needs, you may never get any eggs in the trap. That said, CPD’s are drawn to moss. If you do not have other moss in the tank, this is often enough to get them using the trap.

Dennis

[mostlydave]

I finally go fry!!

Kind of an accident to!! I had 12 new CPD in a 20 gallon breeder with all of my java moss for about a week while I set up my 5.5 breeding tank. I took most of the moss out of the 20l and moved it into the 5.5 breeder (its enough to cover the bottom) and a week after adding the moss I have about 15-20 fry! I’ve had the fry start appearing about a week ago and they seem to still be appearing. I also took the small piece of moss I left in the adult tank and swapped it into my breeder setup.

I’ve been feeding them liquid fry food and sometimes a mixture of yeast and spirulina. I also have walter, banana and micro worms, when should the fry be big enough for micro worms?

I did my first 50% water change in the 5.5 setup after a week I read in the marble breeding thread that you do a 90% water change everyday, should I start doing a large water change everyday, Why is such a large water change required?

I’m really please to have fry after so many attempts at breeding! I’m going to be giving this first batch away to friends and family, but I’m hoping to eventually make a little extra money on the side!

[BallAquatics]

@mostlydave wrote:

I finally go fry!!

Hey Dave that’s great news! I’m very glad those new fish are working out well for you.

It will take them a week or so before they can eat the worms and then another week or so before they are ready for baby brine shrimp.

As for the water changes, I generally change a percentage based on how many fry are in the tank. With 15 fry I might change 25% daily to start, but as they grow increase the percentage. Good water is every bit as important as good food to growing fry. Neglect your water changes and your fish won’t grow nearly as quickly as they should.

Dennis

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